UPDATE PIMD's App Store Age Rating Update

--Duckie-- said:
Yeah, I figured stuff like this would happen. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

If I just sit here and take time to think about this, I think this is what they should do now, since they already spent money on the coding:

1) Make the rating 18+ to keep the game from being recommended to minors (duh).

2) Keep the coded restrictions they just spent money on coding to keep minors from entering the game and being exposed to adult content, while giving a chance for adults interested in the game to experience a sort of tutorial area to decide if they want to keep playing the game and go through the age verification process (because consent is key and adults should get some sort of sample of the game prior to making their decision).

3) To access the adult content of the game once they've completed the tutorial area, the player must go through a true age verification process, where the player submits a picture of themselves, holding an ID (the ID must have a picture of them on it and a date of birth, duh). Similar to how crypto wallet apps do it, the ID verification data must be deleted within lawful limits and cannot be shared with 3rd parties.

4) The age verification is processed by a REAL HUMAN BEING who will accept or deny the verification (yes ATA will have to hire real employees dedicated to this, because AI is way too unreliable for this process).

5) ATA should spend money on advertising the game to adults and advertise it as a unique 18+ social game (which it actually is), going all in on adult themes, giving more SFW and NSFW options for their adult playerbase, like coding NSFW toggles for the adults that don't want their game to appear too sexual during work (or any other reasons) or catering to their actual playerbase's mature sensibilities by being more risqué in their NSFW content instead of doing nonsense to appear more PG (Second Life does this by having PG, Moderate and Adult toggles for content, so players can find items and locations that cater to them as individuals and as adults. It also doubles perfectly to keep teens out of inappropriate content, since Second Life has an adult side to it and has always had this obsession with keeping a teen rating, my guess is money, but whatever).


Would it be annoying for adults to go through this age verification process? Oh, absolutely, but would it keep minors out more effectively than whatever the hell this is trying to achieve on its own? Yes.

I think that when a game is on the app store, it has a much higher responsibility to keep kids out of its adult spaces, because this generation of kids is way more likely to get their games from mobile stores than any previous generations, so if they are going to go down the "protect the kids at all cost" route, then they better go all in with it. Since PIMD doesn't have separate PG, Moderate and Adult areas that are actively moderated by HUMANS, like Second Life* does, this is even more important.

*I am comparing PIMD to Second Life, because it is also an adult leaning social game and although I wish Second Life was rated for adults on the app stores, at least Second Life has restricted areas and shopping restrictions for unverified accounts and most adult locations kick you out manually if your account is younger since locations are moderated acticely by the playerbase (On Second Life you can see when an account was created and whether it's a verified account by looking at the person's profile).
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I think the photo ID is a bit excessive, but I really can't think of any replacement to ensure players are truly adults. Even photo ID isn't foolproof, because fake IDs definitely exist and I think ensuring photo IDs are legitimate for many, many international countries would be potentially difficult (and expensive). ATA is a small company (I believe 300 or less employees) and if they do implement a photo ID situation, that could potentially be outsourced but I see that also being quite costly. Not to add that requiring players to provide a photo ID could cause some players to leave over privacy concerns, like @Taylor13 stated. Especially if outsourcing. A data breach could happen at any time, and while I do generally trust ATA and don't think they would misuse it, I don't trust a photo of my government-issued ID online in general because once it is online it is out of my control.
 
PrincessLunatic said:
The simply question I have here is:
If kids from 13-17 can't really play the game, since communcation is a core aspect of the game.
Why you still let them be here?
Why not not directlty remove them from the game?
Like what is the reason?
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That’s a fair question. The reason we restrict 13-17 accounts instead of immediately banning them is that banning is not always the safest or most effective solution.

A banned player could create another account, while the restricted experience lets us keep age-based protections in place on the account. It also means that if someone sticks around through the restricted version and turns 18, they can move into the appropriate experience without having to appeal a ban or prove their age to support.

The 13-17 experience is intentionally very limited. It exists to keep younger players out of PIMD’s adult social spaces, not to create a separate version of PIMD that we expect them to stick around and play.
 
[ATA]Marceline said:
That’s a fair question. The reason we restrict 13-17 accounts instead of immediately banning them is that banning is not always the safest or most effective solution.

A banned player could create another account, while the restricted experience lets us keep age-based protections in place on the account. It also means that if someone sticks around through the restricted version and turns 18, they can move into the appropriate experience without having to appeal a ban or prove their age to support.

The 13-17 experience is intentionally very limited. It exists to keep younger players out of PIMD’s adult social spaces, not to create a separate version of PIMD that we expect them to stick around and play.
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So can we expect for 13-17 year olds that do somehow make it onto the "real" PIMD and are discovered, instead of being banned they would have their account restricted in this manner?
 
iLelaTheAngelOfDeath said:
Thats an easy bypass though. Of course I dont want it to happen, but as someone who started playing when I was 12 (im now 23) I just dont think theres a true way to prevent it without real verification. Im not sure if thats allowed or how it would work though
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Theres ALOT of extra security that ata would need if they were to start collecting peoples personal id. Alot of people would also leave the app coz who is going to hand out their drivers license or passport just to play a phone game. Sure theres some people who mindlessly hand out everything to everyone but they need protecting from themself when they dont understand the importance of keeping personal information safe
 
Oasis said:
So can we expect for 13-17 year olds that do somehow make it onto the "real" PIMD and are discovered, instead of being banned they would have their account restricted in this manner?
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That's the intended action - if an account is identified as 13-17, then they get placed in the restricted version. Anyone found below 13 will be banned just like before.
 
[ATA]Marceline said:
That's the intended action - if an account is identified as 13-17, then they get placed in the restricted version. Anyone found below 13 will be banned just like before.
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This is wrong though because mine has been restricted for a full day now after it’s been fixed and Im 22 if that can happen to me it can happen to other adults so not sure when ata is going to fix this problem, but i don’t think having all these restrictions is a good idea in the long run 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
GH05TY said:
This is wrong though because mine has been restricted for a full day now after it’s been fixed and Im 22 if that can happen to me it can happen to other adults so not sure when ata is going to fix this problem, but i don’t think having all these restrictions is a good idea in the long run 🤷🏻‍♀️
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Like I understand having the 13-17 age category In a restricted version, but when it’s affecting adults somehow something is wrong here somewhere.
 
[ATA]Marceline said:
That's the intended action - if an account is identified as 13-17, then they get placed in the restricted version. Anyone found below 13 will be banned just like before.
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Would you be accepting retroactive appeals for those banned for being 13-16 (since we did not previously ban 17-year-olds, to my knowledge) to get their accounts unbanned and instead restricted?
 
Oasis said:
Would you be accepting retroactive appeals for those banned for being 13-16 (since we did not previously ban 17-year-olds, to my knowledge) to get their accounts unbanned and instead restricted?
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From what I know they are only banning anyone who is under 13
 
I think PIMD should be labeled 18+ so that if parents are monitoring they can just avoid the app altogether or it will be automatically hidden if theres a restriction on the child's device. Theres always ways around things tho, I understand there's only so much that can be done and at least you are trying to protect some minors if not all. Lets be real, some children will find ways to use apps they shouldn't just out of curiosity or because they simply want to, they'll find a way to go around the age thing. Before all of this, children were already on the app, like someone else said some of us who are old enough now started playing under 18. There's so many apps and websites not meant for children but they end up there anyway. The rating or even this isnt gonna stop them from viewing the content and even interacting with people 100% so imo either way there is always a risk. That's the reality and I know thats what's worrying many of us:(
 
What if I was to tell you all that we have already been able to not only get around the age restrictions very easily on a initially age restricted alt.

We have also been able to have a conversation directly from a non age restricted account (Adult) and a age restricted account, proving the system is already exposing kids to potential predators?

Have reciepts as proof btw
 
DeathBySnuSnu-KiLI_Them_4_Fun said:
We have been looking into this from the beginning and amazed at all the lies and back pedaling that’s been done by devs prior to this final release.

You say that you're not opening up PIMD to 12yo's and keeping it purely a 18+ game, which is confusing me because that’s literally what you’re doing. Kids will be target advertised, they will land in a game that’s literally boring and has little to no functions… so what do you expect them to do? They will get around the age restrictions, get into the full game and spend $` just the way you want.

The next argument is "but they are in the game already prior". Yes they are and we all try to get them banned and report them when we find them, yet tbh very little is done, just like when we report Peadophiles in game, ATA doesn't do anything.

The reason we get minimal kids in here is because its hard for them to find the app to begin because its 18+, its not target advertised to them. Now that the age restrictions have changed, so will the target advertising. ATA says "We are not changing their marketing strategy" but that marketing strategy includes targeted advertising to all available age groups on app stores as well as targeted ads in other apps. Read between the lines, not changing their marketing is very different to making sure 12yo's won’t be targeted for advertising. So as you can see, many more kids 12+ will now be having this app advertised directly to them.

If ATA was really worried about children then they would have built a secondary server to hold the under-age kids completely away from the adult area, with a simple graduation into the adult area when they turn 18yo. But no, they will be putting them in here and enticing them with the 18+ content, UG's and avis to promotes spending, which is what this is all about.

Don't let them fool you, their parent company Embracer last year posted a 57% decrease in revenue in the mobile app sector and their share price has dropped 10× from when ATA was brought out in 2020, so the pressure is on them to increase revenue dramatically.

But the way they are trying to increase said revenue is onboarding 12-18yo kids and grabbing their money now, which I feel is absolutely shameful.

The most laughable part of this whole debacle is ATA saying they need to lower the age restrictions to target the adults that they want to onboard. Targeting kids will not bring more adults, it will simply bring more kids and that 3% they talk about will increase substantially now that advertising is directed at their age groups. Also it’s 12+ on majority of platforms that we have found so far not even the 13+ they are reporting.
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Seems that your post is getting totally ignored…
It’s a shame that they are going to act like that
 
DeathBySnuSnu-KiLI_Them_4_Fun said:
What if I was to tell you all that we have already been able to not only get around the age restrictions very easily on a initially age restricted alt.

We have also been able to have a conversation directly from a non age restricted account (Adult) and a age restricted account, proving the system is already exposing kids to potential predators?

Have reciepts as proof btw
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Oh dear.
 
Taylor13 said:
Asking adults to upload their passports or government ID just to play PIMD feels kinda wild 😭 Government ID checks make sense for banks and crypto because they are regulated industries and legally required to verify identities for Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and compliance laws. PIMD is a mobile game, not a bank. I can’t think of many mainstream mobile games that require every adult to upload a government ID just to access the normal version. The privacy concerns and security risks alone would be massive.
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I was just giving a way they could do this without being predatory to kids that have lootbox addictions, since they care so much about kids and already wasted so much money and effort to "protect" them.

Personally, I think lowering the rating is predatory for a game that has 0 separation between adult content and PG content, unlike Second Life. They would have to literally make a PG server for the kids/minors that doesn't have a shop or any adult themes to it (lol as if they'd do that, we know why they lowered the rating) to be able to lower ratings like this without being predatory to kids. Hell, many dating apps require an ID, phone number and email and they are more thorough with age verification in general than this... And this app is arguably so much more sexual just looking at it than a regular dating app.
 
Not that I agree with what's happening; but this change isn't entirely the fault of ATA. 6 US states have already made state laws about the online safety for kids, and 3 other countries have as well. Online spaces where kids can access will all be affected, not just PIMD. I hope in the future there will be a better way to do age verification. I'm not a fan of id verification because of privacy, but I am for it for the safety of kids.
 
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