LIMITED-TIME CONTENT 🎺 Black History Month 2024 🎺

[Phobia]

2019 - african prints/animals (+ music avi set)
2021 - music
2022 - african prints/animals
2023 - best of both worlds: music AND african prints/animals
2024 - music

variety, where?

Only viewing these events/themes as either:
- music
- "african print"
- or animal print
is a gross generalization of the variety that these themes have. There's Mardi Gras, Soul (which can be defined in multiple ways such as food/history, political movements, as well as music), an entrepreneurial theme, 90's RnB + Hip Hop, Holidays, as well as different African cultural outfits and clothing.

Reminder that Africa is the second-largest continent. There's many different cultures, clothing, and languages, so diluting the different references as "african prints" takes away what's actually being shown.

I understand there's some overlap for sure, but we don't gotta generalize everything lol

 

[Bimb0]

I actually love the corn rows on her

 

[DaniDaniBoBani]

Only viewing these events/themes as either:
- music
- "african print"
- or animal print
is a gross generalization of the variety that these themes have. There's Mardi Gras, Soul (which can be defined in multiple ways such as food/history, political movements, as well as music), an entrepreneurial theme, 90's RnB + Hip Hop, Holidays, as well as different African cultural outfits and clothing.

Reminder that Africa is the second-largest continent. There's many different cultures, clothing, and languages, so diluting the different references as "african prints" takes away what's actually being shown.

I understand there's some overlap for sure, but we don't gotta generalize everything lol

No one needed a geography lesson lol. We know Africa is huge. That doesn't change anything.

Different genres don’t mean it’s not music. You’re really trying to say we should be satisfied that they touched on hip hop AND soul? As if there’s nothing else to acknowledge? Writing. Movies. Sports. Science. Education. Culinary. But a mixtape vs a crooner is supposed to impress me? Also, please show me where they touched on food/history and/or political movements other than a civil rights lawyer avi.

Additionally, not everything has to be a call back to mother Africa. The African and African-American experiences are vastly different. Which they've been told before multiple times. Patterns/styles being Nigerian vs South African vs Ghanaian does not variety make no matter what you're trying to justify. Let alone when they make no effort to discuss the differences.

Perhaps they wouldn't get so much pushback if they didn't tout these things as being for Black History Month (which was literally created to celebrate and educate on ALL facets of African AMERICAN history) year after year, when there is literally less than a handful of topics being touched on and less than a handful of 'cultures'. And if they are going to continue to focus on just Black people overall, there's definitely more to explore than just the continent of Africa.

 

[Oasis]

No one needed a geography lesson lol. We know Africa is huge. That doesn't change anything.

Different genres don’t mean it’s not music. You’re really trying to say we should be satisfied that they touched on hip hop AND soul? As if there’s nothing else to acknowledge? Writing. Movies. Sports. Science. Education. Culinary. But a mixtape vs a crooner is supposed to impress me? Also, please show me where they touched on food/history and/or political movements other than a civil rights lawyer avi.

Additionally, not everything has to be a call back to mother Africa. The African and African-American experiences are vastly different. Which they've been told before multiple times. Patterns/styles being Nigerian vs South African vs Ghanaian does not variety make no matter what you're trying to justify. Let alone when they make no effort to discuss the differences.

Perhaps they wouldn't get so much pushback if they didn't tout these things as being for Black History Month (which was literally created to celebrate and educate on ALL facets of African AMERICAN history) year after year, when there is literally less than a handful of topics being touched on and less than a handful of 'cultures'. And if they are going to continue to focus on just Black people overall, there's definitely more to explore than just the continent of Africa.

I see that they always team up with Black creators as a collab for these BHM avatars / etc. Would there be any specific creators you think would be able to lend a better lens to the AA and/or Black experience? Like for example perhaps bringing in maybe a mixed Black and Asian creator to combine LNY and BHM celebrations.

Or is maybe the collab with different creators each year part of the issue -- maybe that's why there's many seeming repeats or lack of divergence? I'm not sure how familiar these collaborators are with past BHM projects (or rather PIMD in general). With how old the game is, there are some devs likely not entirely sure of everything that has been done before so I'd very much expect that from a 3rd party collaborator brought in for one project.

 

[Phobia]

No one needed a geography lesson lol. We know Africa is huge. That doesn't change anything.

Different genres don’t mean it’s not music. You’re really trying to say we should be satisfied that they touched on hip hop AND soul? As if there’s nothing else to acknowledge? Writing. Movies. Sports. Science. Education. Culinary. But a mixtape vs a crooner is supposed to impress me? Also, please show me where they touched on food/history and/or political movements other than a civil rights lawyer avi.

Additionally, not everything has to be a call back to mother Africa. The African and African-American experiences are vastly different. Which they've been told before multiple times. Patterns/styles being Nigerian vs South African vs Ghanaian does not variety make no matter what you're trying to justify. Let alone when they make no effort to discuss the differences.

Perhaps they wouldn't get so much pushback if they didn't tout these things as being for Black History Month (which was literally created to celebrate and educate on ALL facets of African AMERICAN history) year after year, when there is literally less than a handful of topics being touched on and less than a handful of 'cultures'. And if they are going to continue to focus on just Black people overall, there's definitely more to explore than just the continent of Africa.

No one's saying you have to be impressed or satisfied with anything. I know there's more to the experience of black culture and history than those tied to cultures within Africa- that's why I brought up the fact that using the descriptor of "African prints" was a gross generalization on all parts. :^)

I personally am not completely satisfied with some of the cultural events/hunts, which is why I like offering alternatives and ideas instead (less-so for this event specifically).

 

[Atlas]

No one needed a geography lesson lol. We know Africa is huge. That doesn't change anything.

Different genres don’t mean it’s not music. You’re really trying to say we should be satisfied that they touched on hip hop AND soul? As if there’s nothing else to acknowledge? Writing. Movies. Sports. Science. Education. Culinary. But a mixtape vs a crooner is supposed to impress me? Also, please show me where they touched on food/history and/or political movements other than a civil rights lawyer avi.

Additionally, not everything has to be a call back to mother Africa. The African and African-American experiences are vastly different. Which they've been told before multiple times. Patterns/styles being Nigerian vs South African vs Ghanaian does not variety make no matter what you're trying to justify. Let alone when they make no effort to discuss the differences.

Perhaps they wouldn't get so much pushback if they didn't tout these things as being for Black History Month (which was literally created to celebrate and educate on ALL facets of African AMERICAN history) year after year, when there is literally less than a handful of topics being touched on and less than a handful of 'cultures'. And if they are going to continue to focus on just Black people overall, there's definitely more to explore than just the continent of Africa.

I haven't seen ATA cover black contributions to jazz before, but I'd go wild for an exclusively 40s/50s theme with avis adjacent to Louie Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, John Coltrane etc. Black Americans have contributed an unfathomable amount to music, especially historically, having their works stolen and profited off of by countless white artists during a time of segregation. It should be showcased and appreciated. 3 years ago was the last music related content and there was no jazz representation, so I personally like seeing some, though not everyone does.

As for your suggestion of writing, movies, science, education, and culinary, are you wanting avis that vaguely resemble famous black historical figures with careers in those fields? Since there's copyright issues and such so the devs can't necessarily make avis labeled as certain people. But I guess we should ask some black pimd players to chime in with specific suggestions. Could be an interesting discussion if they want to provide some detailed feedback on what they'd like to see in the future. I believe that's why ATA faithfully collaborates with black creators every year to make this content, so it's coming from a source with personal experiences. I think Muschi had a great question asking if there are ideas for other black artists to collab with going forward for something new.

There's going to be some dissatisfied people any time there's new content, but the best way to suggest things is by giving very detailed ideas on how to adjust and maybe make things better. There's no learning or helpful discussion otherwise.

 

[DaniDaniBoBani]

Remind me to never express dissatisfaction with something regarding my representation unless I’m prepared to write an entire novel explaining to ppl that don’t look like me as to why I’m not giving a glowing 5-star review, and then another novel doing the labor of telling people how to fix a problem that they’ve previously been told how to fix and already been given suggestions to do better.

 

[Atlas]

Remind me to never express dissatisfaction with something regarding my representation unless I’m prepared to write an entire novel explaining to ppl that don’t look like me as to why I’m not giving a glowing 5-star review, and then another novel doing the labor of telling people how to fix a problem that they’ve previously been told how to fix and already been given suggestions to do better.

I was kinda looking forward to your specific, individual perspective and ideas which is why I asked a follow up, to have a conversation about it. But fair enough, you have stated your opinion. I hope the content next time is more appealing to everyone.

 

[DaniDaniBoBani]

I was kinda looking forward to your specific, individual perspective and ideas which is why I asked a follow up, to have a conversation about it. But fair enough, you have stated your opinion. I hope the content next time is more appealing to everyone.

I brought up the African influence/culture vs African-American/African-Canadian last year. It’s been brought up every year honestly if I recall correctly. Other people have given suggestions in prior BHM posts over the years as well. Honestly at this point they could just draw black people in regular, every day clothes without a boombox or instrument in hand, and it’d be fine. Or a dorm without smth that makes you think you vacationed on a safari. At the end of the day we just exist.

 

[Xohi]

It's the same 20ec we would have paid to get all four avis alone with the extra work of a story pass. I'mma still buy it though The VIP avis are really cute.

 

[Cocoa]

while we are asking for stuff, I’m Native American…can I have a Native American story pass in November? That’s my peoples month. Oh, and I want an avatar with red skin because I find it funny people get offended by that yet I’m Native American and don’t. (I burn in the sun despite my heritage, yet my brother looks like a normal Native American in the summer. )

To stay on topic about black avatars, can I have a female without an Afro? I know quite a few black women who go to the salon and don’t just rock an Afro 24/7.

 

[L1NDA]

Only viewing these events/themes as either:
- music
- "african print"
- or animal print
is a gross generalization of the variety that these themes have. There's Mardi Gras, Soul (which can be defined in multiple ways such as food/history, political movements, as well as music), an entrepreneurial theme, 90's RnB + Hip Hop, Holidays, as well as different African cultural outfits and clothing.

Reminder that Africa is the second-largest continent. There's many different cultures, clothing, and languages, so diluting the different references as "african prints" takes away what's actually being shown.

I understand there's some overlap for sure, but we don't gotta generalize everything lol

I think you're overreacting a bit on her comment, shes simply pointing out the similarities found in each year.
This is why we need to take our time to understand their annoyance in order to improve.
I think ATA should look into that, especially the African print part. If they don't for the next couple years it might come off as them playing into black stereotypes of black ppl=music and African=African Prints.
So please take your time to understand and hear them out instead of being quick to accuse them.

 

[L1NDA]

I see that they always team up with Black creators as a collab for these BHM avatars / etc. Would there be any specific creators you think would be able to lend a better lens to the AA and/or Black experience? Like for example perhaps bringing in maybe a mixed Black and Asian creator to combine LNY and BHM celebrations.

Or is maybe the collab with different creators each year part of the issue -- maybe that's why there's many seeming repeats or lack of divergence? I'm not sure how familiar these collaborators are with past BHM projects (or rather PIMD in general). With how old the game is, there are some devs likely not entirely sure of everything that has been done before so I'd very much expect that from a 3rd party collaborator brought in for one project.

Doesn't ATA come up with the theme and the artist just illustrators base on that?
Also even if the artist they work with doesn't know past theme's thats up to ATA to make sure it isn't similar to previous years. Im sure that isnt hard to do.

 

[Phobia]

I think you're overreacting a bit on her comment, shes simply pointing out the similarities found in each year.
This is why we need to take our time to understand their annoyance in order to improve.
I think ATA should look into that, especially the African print part. If they don't for the next couple years it might come off as them playing into black stereotypes of black ppl=music and African=African Prints.
So please take your time to understand and hear them out instead of being quick to accuse them.

I understand if my post came off as overreacting, but it's more-so just over-explaining on my end lol
I definitely took the time to read, hence why I agreed that there has been overlap in the events and I have also been dissatisfied with the cultural content as well, no accusation or malice on my end, just a disagreement in language <3

 

[L1NDA]

Remind me to never express dissatisfaction with something regarding my representation unless I’m prepared to write an entire novel explaining to ppl that don’t look like me as to why I’m not giving a glowing 5-star review, and then another novel doing the labor of telling people how to fix a problem that they’ve previously been told how to fix and already been given suggestions to do better.

I see you and I hear your annoyance. I'm also sorry some of them aren't taking the time to listen and understand. This month is literally about celebrating you and your people. But you have non blacks telling you how much they liked it and how they feel about something that isnt about them, which might feel like they're erasing your opinion on this. Trust me I see it.

 

[Day]

Doesn't ATA come up with the theme and the artist just illustrators base on that?
Also even if the artist they work with doesn't know past theme's thats up to ATA to make sure it isn't similar to previous years. Im sure that isnt hard to do.

Collaborations with artists usually allow them to have equal contribution to the overall end product. I can’t speak for ATA, but I think that was the goal with working together with Nneka.

I totally agree that it is the developer’s job to create unique content! But I wouldn’t say it’s easy, considering how many avatars and combinations we have available.

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on cross checking past content? I think it just depends on if players are more unhappy with the similarity of content, or if they overall find the design quality inaccurate. Either way more steps are clearly needed to help both the developers and players come to a better understanding of the issue.

 

[Phobia]

Doesn't ATA come up with the theme and the artist just illustrators base on that?
Also even if the artist they work with doesn't know past theme's thats up to ATA to make sure it isn't similar to previous years. Im sure that isnt hard to do.

I'm not entirely sure how the process goes with working with artists outside of ATA, I'm assuming the theme of Jazz music was maybe chosen because Nneka Myers worked on the movie Soul? Not entirely sure but her portfolio has a lot of unique concepts that would be fun to see if they work with her again!

 

[L1NDA]

I understand if my post came off as overreacting, but it's more-so just over-explaining on my end lol
I definitely took the time to read, hence why I agreed that there has been overlap in the events and I have also been dissatisfied with the cultural content as well, no accusation or malice on my end, just a disagreement in language <3

Did I read it wrong? You didn't accuse her of gross generalization?

 

[L1NDA]

Collaborations with artists usually allow them to have equal contribution to the overall end product. I can’t speak for ATA, but I think that was the goal with working together with Nneka.

I totally agree that it is the developer’s job to create unique content! But I wouldn’t say it’s easy, considering how many avatars and combinations we have available.

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on cross checking past content? I think it just depends on if players are more unhappy with the similarity of content, or if they overall find the design quality inaccurate. Either way more steps are clearly needed to help both the developers and players come to a better understanding of the issue.

I meant easy to not repeat similar BHM not coming up with new content.

 

[Phobia]

Did I read it wrong? You didn't accuse her of gross generalization?

Saying that the language used was generalized is not an accusatory statement. This conversation wasn't an argument, though she unfortunately felt that I was being negative, the misunderstanding was equal between the both of us. As I mentioned, I reinforced that I agreed with her twice :^)

This conversation is an important one and I'd be down to chat about it more if you'd like! Just don't wanna flood the forums on this one discussion lol