Question #2

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by YourDailyDoseOf0rg-sm, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. You do realize that the only thing that makes money Counterfeit is that the government deems it so? There is something about a bill that makes it real.

    Governments could have their own extra prime number that they attach to their official cryptos in the future, perhaps changing date by date so as to remain secret and keeping counterfeiting hard, and if your bitcoin doesn't check out according to their records, your coin is worthless. It iscounterfeit, cheap, dirty, and whatever else we associate with money not approved by the government.
     
  2. Fùck no. The whole point is separating monetary system from state
     
  3. So if you're saying that the government gives value to money you're of the wrong notion. anything can gain value if ppl deem it valuable and bitcoin is a store of value like gold, except it overcomes the shortcomings of gold like divisibility, cost of transaction, speed of transaction, etc. It drives value from the fact that its like the gold standard, but much better. That's why it has value today. The beauty of bitcoin is it is anti censorship, so there isn't much government can do about it.
     
    Alicia likes this.
  4. Also let's not forget that the period of gold standard from 1870s-1914 was a period of prosperity.The fùck up then. We are only told about Keynesian economics cuz Government's want it that way. Try Austrian economics
     
  5. You can definitely give me the name of it, but economics is not my favorite topic so I might not actually get around to reading it. :p
     
  6. The government will and has to find a way to control any major currency, especially one which deems itself able to "correct" the current system.

    Is your bitcoin taxed? Can you be paid in it?

    As soon as it emerges from obscurity and starts to do the things you think it can do in an unrecognized, free and unrestricted manner, the government will regulate it.

    We might have a phase of decentralized anarchy, snd then it will be tamed.



    Why is counterfeit money not attractive to you? Why wouldn't you use printed bills?
     
  7. Oh it has been beautifully written like a story. The bitcoin standard by saifedean Ammous
     
    Muschi likes this.
  8. Sure the government will try to regulate bitcoin since they have failed in banning it, but whether they succeed in their attempts is to be seen. Personally I don't mind if they find a way regulate it. Regulated or not, they can't change the core protocol which is laid in stone, the can't confiscate it, they can't print it, etc.

    Regarding tax, again the period of gold standard which was also a period of prosperity didn't have tax. It is only later that the government introduced tax to fund wars.

    Also, I don't understand why u can't get your head around the fact that decentralized doesn't mean anarchy. Bitcoin is self-regulated by math. It doesn't need the erroneous human regulation. no government is anarchy, separating monetary system from government brings more order.

    Money should be a store of value, medium of exchange and a unit of account, and government money is definitely not a store of value or unit if account. Since 1970s, fiats have lost 96-97% of their purchasing power, which deems it unfit to be money. Compare this with gold which has had the same purchasing power over the years. Moreover fiat isn't a good unit of account cuz the records can be changed, manipulated to suit the rich. Bitcoin fixes this. It is an immutable unit of account where all the transactions stay in blockchain forever for everyone to view view them and can't be changed.

    1. It erodes the wealth of the unbanked. I am unbanked but thanks to bitcoin my wealth isn't being eroded.
    2. It's a system that allows government to counterfeit but not people.
    3. The inflationary model leads to cantillon effect which increases economic disparity.
    4. It's a systemic theft of wealth.
    5. Currently money is debt. And government keep printing more debt to repay debts. Does that sound wrong to u?
    6. It doesn't have the properties of sound money, i.e, it's not a good SoV or unit of account.
    7. The money government deems counterfeit is used to fund terror and drug cartels.
    8. Banks are the biggest cartel that carry out money laundering for the rich and privileged but wouldn't let an iranian, who has lived in U.S since he was 2, have a bank account just cuz he was born in Iran.
    Banks have failed to bank the unbanked. bitcoin will bring financial inclusivity and hence inclusive growth.

    I could go on but hey, why don't you give me reasons why you would use the government money and not bitcoin, kefo?

    And once more since u fail to understand this, decentralised doesn't necessarily translate to anarchy. It doesn't mean no government, just less government
     
  9. O. I'm just curious about what new things it actually brings to the table.

    To me, its status seems easily reducible to counterfeit money. I heard that cryptos were a large source of finding for the Islamic State, and it's used on the dark web for unspeakable things that people would want to be untracable.

    It seems easy to regulate, and I wonder how good that actually is. I think some regulation is always good because I'm not a libertarian but crypto is often a libertarian fever dream.

    Most of the time, I'm pushing against and arguing against a large strawman or just how I hear most people talk about bitcoin to promote it: a wild west, a gold rush, eternally free and incorruptible, the peoples' money, an unending el dorado, etc.

    But yeah. Even though it may not be all of those things, it's probably still a good thing. I'm not opposed to cryptocurrencies. I don't like them being sold like snake oil cure-alls and I like to meme on the culture of people who do that.

    I'm glad you admit some of its limitations and I hope you keep your enthusiasm for it and can iron out more kinks.

    Idk what an SoV is or the Cantillon effect.
    I like choice. Gold, crypto, saffron, rare dolls, whatever your investment. The more, the better.

    I'll admit idk enough about cryptography and data mining to even properly profile and understand the potential of cryptocurrencies but I find it intriguing and like to hear more about that stuff.

    Don't be bothered by me. I think you're beyond my depth to argue with, I just want to ask some thought-provoking questions to find out more both for my curiosity and to keep your engaged.
     
  10. I have already laid down quite a few new things it brings to the table which are a solution to the failing monetary policies of the central banks and governments in my threads which I hope you have been reading. The rumor that cryptos were a large source of finding for Islamic State was to support the governments that they are used by terrorists. However, I would like to point out that when I say bitcoin I specifically mean bitcoin and not cryptos. There's some very good developments happening in the crypto space and a lot of projects propose solutions to specific problems, but there's also a lot of scams coins. Moreover, bitcoin is the only truly decentralised crypto.

    It's impossible to counterfeit bitcoin due to the distributed ledger. Miners can't mint bitcoins freely, they only get bitcoins rewarded to them for solving a block. And these blocks are updated in the universal distributed ledger, a copy of which is with all nodes, so each bitcoin transferred of produced goes to a certain wallet no extra bitcoin other than the scheduled ones can be minted, which will again stop in 2140.

    I see where you're coming from. Sometimes ppl exaggerate. What bitcoin is, is a decentralised, censorship resistant, immutable, store of value, unit of account, trustless, permission less sound money. It's an amazing invention which I'm sure you will understand once u go down the rabbit hole

    I'm actually glad and thankful you're indulging in a thought provoking question. My aim is to convince people and clear the misunderstanding there is about crypto, to bring in more people in this peaceful revolution, a revolution that can make the world a better place, a world where we can have true democracy not just voting rights to choose the lesser of two evils to rule us. I don't intend to condescend anyone, cuz if we're not in this together we fail

    I'm not saying I know it all, but thought provoking conversation help me learn more. You can say I'm an aspiring economist. The other day Rynn raise some very good points, some of which I didn't have the answer to, so I had to read and learn more. So yes any critic about the system is more than welcome. Maybe some day we can get deep enough to come up with solutions. And yes, bitcoin is definitely people's money lol.